Prevent water and boiler freezing in Winter

[Adrianlle]

Greetings from the UK. May I ask a silly question please? In previous winters I have drained down the water and boiler and refilled when I used the Cook. This winter we plan to use the Cook every few weeks so it is tedious to keep draining and refilling- the draining of all the water takes a long time with much blowing into the shower hose to drain the boiler. So my question is what do users do who use their Cooks regularly but not everyday in cold Winters? Do you drain and refilleach time you use the Cook or leave the heating and boiler on 24/7 on the lowest settings or do you use a small electric fan heater permanently set on a frost setting? I would be most interested to know what people do. Kind Regards. Adrian

[Bernd]

Hi Adrian,

Your question is not silly at all! I'm facing the same problem for several years now since I'm using my James all year long. If I'm on the road and it might be freezing, I will have my boiler running 24 hours a day, no matter if I'm driving or an a camp site. I will also pay special attention to my gas bottles so they do not run out of gas at night when I'm sleeping and I would not recognize the "red light" of the boiler.

However, if I'm at home on the weekend, and will not use James, and it's really freezing, then it depends what I'm doing:

• One or two nights not using James: Put an electric heater inside when James is in my barn. And also open flaps, openings and doors inside so warm air can go everywhere inside the car. And put the cap on the boiler's exhaust!

• More than two or three nights: Drain at least the water from the boiler, since frozen water can destroy it. Maybe also drain the main water tank - depending on the actual temperature. However it will not freeze as quick as the boiler

Summarized, using an electrical heater is the most expensive thing you can do. So this should be only an option for a few days or nights. So better take the time to drain and refill your James.

Hope this answer will help you. Feel free to ask if there are anymore questions on your side.

Bernd

[Thomas T.]

Moin moin,

ich schreib’ mal in meiner Muttersprache weil es mir doch recht schwer fällt einen, wie ich hoffe, halbwegs verständlichen Text in Englisch zu verfassen. Bernd, vielleicht bist Du so gut und übersetzt für Adrian, ich glaube Du kannst das viel besser.

Um das Entleeren der Trinkwasseranlage zu beschleunigen und zu erleichtern kann man ein zusätzliches Ablassventil in den Warmwasserschlauch zur Küchenarmatur einbauen.
Das sieht dann so aus:

Ablassventile neben dem Kofferraum

FW Ablassventile.jpg (165.55 KiB) 1581 mal betrachtet

Ich hab’ das vor knapp zwei Jahren gemacht weil ich bei der Erneuerung aller Wasserschläuche darauf gekommen bin dass es, so wie Westfalia das angelegt hat, unmöglich ist den Warmwasserschlauch zwischen Bad- und Küchenarmatur zu entleeren. Das hat bei mir dazu geführt das es immer schwieriger wurde die Wasserleitungen mit Chemie so sauber zu bekommen das man das Wasser trinken mochte.

Erst im darauf folgenden Winter hab’ ich einen positiven Nebeneffekt bemerkt:
Wenn ich bei ausgeschalteter Tauchpumpe, geöffneten Wasserhähnen und ganz herausgezogenem und hoch gehängtem Duschschlauch die beiden Ablassventile öffne, laufen in weniger als zehn Minuten ca. zwölf Liter Wasser zügig ab. Das Trinkwassersystem und der Boiler sind dann also so gut wie leer ohne irgendwo in einen Schlauch blasen zu müssen.

Durch das zweite Ablassventil kann ich die Trinkwasseranlage in einer viertel Stunde frostsicher machen und wenn’s wieder wärmer wird dauert das Auffüllen auch nicht viel länger.

[Adrianlle]

Thank you Bernd and Thomas. I will do as Bernd suggests. However is there some technique to draining the boiler quickly? At the moment I switch off the pump. Then open both taps at the mid point between hot and cold. Then while the tank is draining I open the boiler drain valve in the boot. The boiler always needs me to blow long and hard down the shower hose though to empty. Is there a better way of doing it? eg should I drain the boiler before draining the cold water tank? Kind Regards from a Brexit obsessed UK! Adrian.

[admin]

We had a T1N Cook for 11 years and just opened the drain valves and the faucets. That's it. Took 1-2 minutes. We never blew anything. The remaining water did no harm. We did it after every trip, just to get used to it and not to forget it when traveling in winter.

With our new NCV3 we do the same. Takes less than a minute, as all the valves are at the same place.


Peter

[Adrianlle]

Peter, that’s very interesting. Did you open the drain for the cold water tank as well- I ask because that surely takes more than 2 mins to empty? Perhaps I am just being too cautious about trying to get all the water out? Kind Regards Adrian

[admin]

I opened everything. That's what takes 2 minutes. Hanging the showerhead high, switching off the water pump, open the 2 faucets, walk around to the trunk and open the boiler drain, walk to the side and open the fresh water drain.

I have no idea how long it takes for the tanks to empty. I never watch until the end. I open everything and go home.

Peter

[Netsrac]

Hi Adrian,

I do it the same way as Peter - it takes only some minutes .
To drain the Boiler Switch off the pump and open the water taps on the Position "warm" - then open the small yellow drain valve left of the Boiler pipes. I don't see any reason to modify the pipes.
Opening the fresh water drain please open the intake cover - otherwise you'll get a vacuum which can destroy the tank. The small hole for reventilation ist too small and often dirty.
I make this procedure after every "arrival at home" to prevent growing bacteria in tank, Boiler and pipes - I hate to use chemical additives.
And with the rest of the fresh water you can make your flowers in the garden happy

Best regards, Carsten

[admin]

... please open the intake cover ... The small hole for reventilation ist too small and often dirty.

I never did that. Isn't the overflow opening big enough? This is "cleaned" at full pressure with every fill-up.

[h-g]

... please open the intake cover ... The small hole for reventilation ist too small and often dirty.

I never did that. Isn't the overflow opening big enough? This is "cleaned" at full pressure with every fill-up.

Carsten is right: you should open the intake cover. Some intake covers do not have a ventilation, and if they have one it might be clogged. And the overflow or ventilation hose (marked in red in the enclosed diagram) cannot be used for ventilation if the intake cover (clogged or without ventilation hole) is in place.

But there is a solution, where you don't need to open the intake cover. I have done an appropriate modification it in my JC and I have described it elsewhere: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4974&p=31750&hilit ... ung#p31750
The diagram, which is referred to in that article (and which is no longer there), is the same as below.

Concerning ventilation of fresh water tank there was a long discussion in viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5914&p=38100&hilit ... ank#p38100

Regards Hans-Georg

Frischwassertank - Belüftung.JPG (53.95 KiB) 1407 mal betrachtet

[Adrianlle]

Thank you all for your contributions. Now I know how the experts drain the system. Also I did not know about removing the filler cap to avoid a vacuum. I realise that part of the issue for me is that it isn’t easy in my yard to manoeuvre the Cook so that the tank drain pipe is over the drain( otherwise water goes all over the yard) - so I will get some flexible pipe to push on to the tank drain pipe and connect with the drain cover in the yard when I drain down. Then maybe I will be able to do it all in 2 minutes like Peter! Kind Regards from one of the very few Cooks in the UK. Adrian