Electrical Upgrade - the "Cadillac" or the "Kia" solution

[pjstock]

This is not really a technical question but more a philosophical musing to help me get my brain around the issue. There is no Right or Wrong answer - it’s really just up to me.

When tested, Our original GEL leisure batteries (which are probably 18 years old) are reading REPLACE.
The supplier of our original solar panels tells us they need to be replaced.
(That plus the need to replace the original 2130v 12v battery charger with a 115v version)
So we are at the point of an electrical upgrade.

The question is which of two routes to go - The “Cadillac” upgrade or the “Kia” upgrade (in Germany it would probably be the MB versus the Opel upgrade)

An experienced wohnmobil electrician (who actually lives full time in his own wohnmobil and who travels around to electrical jobs) gave us the “Cadillac” (best of the best) estimate: which included all Victron equipment (which I understand is the best),1xa 300AH LiFePo battery, a combination Victron Multiplus charger-inverter, 3 x flexible solar panels, plus some other pieces
Materials 5000 euros (the Victron battery alone would cost 1900 euros)
Labor: 2300 euros (at the very reasonable rate of just 70 euros per hour)
Total 7300 euros
(I would need his expertise to stitch all these “smart” Victron pieces together, .)

Beside the expense (which we can afford if it all makes sense) my hesitation is that none of the pieces he has recommended will fit into the existing spaces of a JC.
The battery is too big for the cavity in the water tank,
And the Victron Mulitplus combination charger - inverter measures 506 x 236 x 147 mm to replace the original charger in the side panel.
So all this gear would have to go on a sliding tray in the rear of the JC.
So that would be wasted space (and I think vehicles like JCs are all about the elegant optimisation of space)

And, is this Victron solution just overkill? (when we will likely only use this unit 30 days per year)
Do we really need a wifi enabled “Smart” electrical system ?

The cheap alternative would be:
1. Order that Fraron 115v charger from Europe and just "plug and play" swap it for the original. (330 euros)
2. Just replace the two current GEL batteries with more budget 200AH LiFePo units. 2x 300euros = 600 euros
That I can do myself and I would be on my way electrically for less than 1000euros

Then If solar panels even make sense I could replace my two dead ones for three new ones for about 100euros each.

Thoughts?

[Boxerspezi]

Hello Pjstock,
the last variant mentioned (Opel variant) would be perfectly adequate for me. Bluetooth connection should already be available.
Greetings
George

[pjstock]

I tend to agree
and instead of sitting behind a computer screen dreaming up ideal hypothetical solutions, I think we might do well to do a modest upgrade and then go and take an actual trip and try things out, learn from experience and THEN when we get home reconsider the options.

the plan is to take the JC for a month in the Yukon in August.
57 hours of driving.

[Never ending project]

Hallo Peter,
..."Cadillac" wird überbewertet.....ich würde auch eine kleine Lösung bevorzugen, die ich bestenfalls selbst installieren kann, denn dann weiß ich gleich, wie was zusammenhängt und kann mir bei auftretenden Fehlern schneller ein Bild und eine Lösung finden, anstatt vor einer "black box" zu sitzen, die High end beinhaltet und die man nicht durchschaut.
Ich spreche aus Erfahrung, denn der Vorbesitzer unseres James Cook Bj2006 hat alles mögliche geändert, verbessert und ausgetauscht und das macht es für mich sehr schwierig, die Zusammenhänge zu begreifen und eine koordinierte Fehlersuche zu beginnen.......eine Unmenge an Kabeln, die man nicht richtig verfolgen kann und hier noch ein Gerät und da noch ein Gerät.
Er hat aber für die vielen zusätzlichen Installationen einen guten Platz gefunden, wo die Geräte kaum stören; und zwar an der Decke des großen Faches im Küchenblock, in dem das Fußteil des unteren Bettes installiert wird. Weitere Geräte, z.B. der Solarregler sind in dem hinteren Bereich der oberen Trittstufe im Küchenblock und eine Vorrangschaltung hat ihren Platz in dem Raum hinter der Kopfstütze der Sitzgruppe gefunden......
Um den Deckel zum Batteriefach noch ganz öffnen zu können, mußte ich ihn längs durchschneiden und mit Klavierband klappbar machen.....
In die Aussparung des Wassertanks passten dicke zwei LifePo Batterien mit je 90 Ah.....
Ich häng mal einige Bilder an....sowas läßt sich sicher mit dem Schwarmwissen des Forums in Eigenarbeit realisieren, auch angepasst für die amerikanische 115 V Landstromversorgung......obwohl, wenn Trump Dänemark und Canada übernimmt, habt Ihr vielleicht auch bald 230 V......
Gruß aus Braunschweig vom Arnd

[pi-high]

As someone who has driven across Canada, Victoria to Newfoundland and up the Dempster to the Arctic Circle in a 1998 James Cook with aging but decent gel batteries, I found that a great deal of the time is spent driving (it's a big country) and consequently charging batteries. I had 100 watts of solar which may have been useful if we camped long enough in one spot without any trees overhead. The compressor fridge is very efficient and easily runs 3 days with only the solar panel to help out. Saying that, if the gel batteries were in poor condition, I would likely switch to "KIA" Life Po batteries. But I would not like to mess with the best-designed storage space ever in our JC.
Good luck with your trip plans. We are heading to Ontario in August.

[pjstock]

thank you all again for your help and patience.

In the end I have decided on a very simple, basic (and inexpensive) solution.
I have ordered 2x 100AH LiFePo batteries (Group size 21 which are even smaller than the water tank battery holder space) and a basic locally available 20A charger. plus a monitor "Shunt"
Total cost: 550 euros
(a single 300AH Victron battery would have been 2000euros. and would not have fit in the water tank space)

that is so inexpensive that I'll be surprised if it works, or even lasts more than a few months
but these pieces, as low cost as they are, seem to get quite good reviews.
so I think it is worth the risk.

I'll report back once things are installed.

Peter

[woodz]

Would be interesting to know the total weight of the components for the "Cadillac" version. Gross weight of the vehicle can sometimes be an issue.

[pjstock]

in the Cadillac version the big components were:
Victron 300 AH 29kg
Mulitplus inverter charger 19kg
Total 48kg

in my Kia version Iused:
2x Watt Cycle 100AH mini 19kg (9.5kg each)
charger 1kg
total 20kg

so the Kia version actually asaves about 28kgs. not a huge savings but....

but to be fair, I am only getting 200ah worth of batteries versus 300AH in the Cadillac version
(LiFePo batteries seem to be about 9.5kg per 100AH these days)
and I have not included the weight of an stand alone Inverter in my "Kia" upgrade.